unstoppable podcast, episode 55

Growing a Music Audience on Web3 with Wuki

Jun 18, 2021

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Host:  Everybody, welcome back to The Unstoppable Podcast.  I'm your host, Diana Chen.  And I've got a very special and fun guest today.  I've got Wuki, he's a Grammy nominated producer and remixer that many of you may have heard of, and he's also very deep in the Cryptospace.  So I'm excited to have a different perspective on the podcast today.  We're hearing straight from the source of an artist of a creator.  And I, I—I've always said, you know, I think one of the most compelling used cases for crypto and Web3 is for content creators, artists, musicians.  So I'm really excited to talk to Wuki and hear his perspective on why this space is so exciting, and why other musicians and artists should hop on board as well.  So hey, thanks so much for being here, I really appreciate you taking the time.  

Wuki:  Hey, no problem.  Thanks for having me.  I'm excited about this.  

Host:  Of course, of course.  So to start off, I want to know a little bit more about your background.  So I want to know, who were you before you were Wuki, like what were you doing?  How'd you get into music in the first place?

Wuki:  So yeah, I mean, I was always kind of a misfit in high school.  I like, I like played in bands.  I started playing guitar when I was 13.  I played in rock bands.  I was really into like hardcore music.  And probably the first step in the music industry was like—I was like 19 or 20 years old.  I remember dropping out of college, I hated college.  I did one semester and I dropped out, and I, I joined this band with a couple friends from my hometown that like, I've always—I always admired them.  They were always like, my buddies.  They had like a different band and they starting a new one.  And I joined and we actually got signed to a major label and we—to Island Def Jam.  And that was my first step in the music industry.  And that my life was just kind of crazy from then.  We were like touring Europe a bunch and just—we tour the states a bunch.  We were like a band, in a band, that kind of world, like before dance music was really popping in America.  And so that was like, I mean, that was my life that was seven years.  And then pretty much the band broke up.  They just—the other guys just didn't really want to do it anymore.  We were really—we, we were kind of big, but it was—it was hard, man.  It's so hard to be in a band.  And so I still really wanted to do music and electronic music was like really popping at the time.  And I was like, I really want to get into this.  And we—I mean, I like, programmer before we were, half electronics.  So, I, I just went really deep for a whole year and just like learned a bunch and started producing and that's when Wuki was born and just been grinding ever since really.  

Host:  Gotcha.  Gotcha.  And then for people who aren't familiar, what kind of music is just like general electronic music and then what does remixer mean?  Is that the same thing as a DJ or is that different?

Wuki:  Well, I put remixer in my bio because, I'm like—I'm kind of known for remixes, I do a lot of remixes.  I was nominated for—a Grammy nominated for remix, and—a lot of my edits get played out by everybody like—I, I guess the difference between a remix, edit and mashup is all kind of subjective.  So it's like—but I'm also a producer.  I'm also a music producer and a DJ.  So it's like—I kind of just like blur all those lines.  A lot of people don't know where to put me, so, but it is all like fun dance music, if that makes sense.  

Host:  Gotcha.  Gotcha.  And then do—like, where do you get your inspiration from?

Wuki:  I don't know, man.  I sometimes I'll—I'll be in the grocery store and like hear an old song and be like, oh, I could flip that.  And like, I'll throw, like, some weird acapella over it and put it on TikTok and it'll like blow up.  

Host:  Nice.  Nice.  All right.  So, so the other side of you, you know, there's the musician side of you, and then the other side of you is sort of this crypto guy.  And so, when did you get into crypto?  Like when did you first hear about, and then how did you like get into it?

Wuki:  So I actually—yeah, I got into it like 2016.  I think I bought Bitcoin at like $600 or something like that.  Ethereum at like $12.  I, I heard what's his name?  Andreas Antonopoulos on a podcast.  And I was just like, really, really intrigued.  He was—he laid it out really well, like the whole like decentralized thing.  And I was just like, wow, that makes a lot of sense.  I was still really confused.  I mean, looking back I didn't really know anything and I just—I just jumped in.  Because I wanted to just—I don't know I, I—I would invest in stocks, but it was always like little, little bit, little bit, you know, I was like, this is cool, but kind of boring.  Stocks were always like something my dad did and I was like, "eh, whatever."  So I jumped in and then like the crazy happened.  While I—like, I, I held, I held from 600 to 20,000 that year.  And so I was like—it was like probably the most money I ever made in my life.  And I was like, oh my God.  I was like, I was going deep.  I was going into the Shitcoins and like all—like the all coins and everything.  I opened up Binance, I remember I stopped making music.  I was like, just like—me, and my friend were like just buying stuff.  One of my friends owns a CryptoPunk.  He told me to get them and I was like, I don't even know what this is.  I, honestly, I hate saying this, but I think I might have a CryptoPunk on a Metamask somewhere that is lost, unfortunately.  

Host:  Oh my gosh.  So many people listening are going to hate you for that.  

Wuki:  I know, but it's the truth.  I, I—if I could find that Metamask, I might have either a CryptoKitty or CryptoPunk in there.  I was like, I smoke weed, so I might have forgot like what's going.  But I, I kind of—I vaguely remember doing that.  I know I haven't metamask, but—so yeah, that was 2016, 2017.  And then I got—I got pretty into it then.  And, I mean, obviously everything dipped down and I, I got it out, when it dipped down to like 16, because I mean, obviously, I, I needed the money at the time.  I wasn't, I, I—I kind of grew a lot since then.  So like I really needed to take the money and, and then it kind of like it settled down.  And then to be honest, I did kind of get out of it because like I wasn't making money and I was like, whatever, I got like music and DJing sweeps you up.  I'm like, you know, I'm doing stuff every—that was my main gig I'm touring every week and everything.  So I kind of let it sit dormant for a bit.  I had a—I have a Nano ledger that just—I just let a couple hundreds or a $1000 sit on there.  And basically, just like, didn't worry about it for a couple years until like this—once the pandemic hit.  And once I started seeing Bitcoin kind of like get some more bullish activity, I was like, okay, maybe I need to like pay attention to this more.  And, I like, I, I started digging really deep, in the last year probably.  

Host:  Okay, cool.  Cool.  Yeah.  So when you started getting deep into the space, how did you start learning about it and then how would you explain why decentralization and Web3 is cool for—musicians or any—any type of artist or content creator to somebody listening, you know, who doesn't know anything about it?

Wuki:  For sure.  Yeah.  I mean it empowers artists just straight up it, it gives artists and content creators way more control and power.  Which is like—I, I've always thought like the most—like there's so much bullshit in between a creator and someone who wants the content for pretty much all of time up until these last few years, where it's like, it has to go through an - - guy.  It has to go through a label.  It has to go through a distributor, all these things where it's like, now you are that it—it basically, in a nutshell, it allows you to be all of those things and you don't have to deal with anyone.  And it's just direct from the artists to the consumer.  And that allows for so much more flexibility and beautiful things that happen really.  Just like, if—like so much more communication, so much more directness.  And it's just—it really is, like—I, I really think it's the future, yeah.  

Host:  Yeah, for sure.  So obviously it's great for artists too, you know, in the sense of making money musicians right now, they have to go through Spotify or platform like that.  And then Spotify takes most of the money.  So you don't actually end up making that much money.  So obviously from a monetary perspective, that's great.  If you can actually earn all the money that you deserve to earn from the music that you make.  But I'm wondering, from the perspective of interacting with your fans, how do you, how do you see that playing out in a decentralized Web3 world?  Right now, it's like, if I'm a fan, I might just listen to your music on your website or on, you know, whatever platforms it's on, but I might not actually ever interact with you or the, the music I listen to,  I'm never going to interact with those musicians.  So how do you see that changing in the future?

Wuki:  Yeah, for sure.  So like, me personally, something I could do is on—in my discord, I have a community, I started a social token and what they could do now is use that token within discord to just—like, if they want some direct feedback and they want to buy my time for an hour or so.  They could pay me, you know, whatever, fill in the blank at like $30.  And I will sit there and I'll give them direct feedback on how they could help their track out a little bit.  And so, and that—that's just one example.  If they want a preset made in a synth, like a synths, have something called preset where it's like, you make the sound and then you could save it and you use it whenever you want.  And they're like, "you, how'd you make that sound?"  I could sell it to them for one Wuki token or whatever, you know, it's like there's a lot of things that we could do.  And even, I don't even think of the community could think of it and I'll be like, oh, that's a really good idea.  And I'll do it because it's, it's so easy and integrated now that I could just, I could just press the button and do it.  

Host:  I was going to ask you how complex was the process of creating your own social token?

Wuki:  Well, I'm lucky I'm using a company called Rally.  They are hooking me up.  They're so helpful.  They're amazing.  So they, I mean, they mint the token for you.  And then I have somebody working directly in my discord.  That's helping me set it up.  So, I mean, obviously not everyone can do that.  Like you do have to be like approved, but I was told from a few friends that people can do it, just not through that company.  They just have to figure out how to do it on their own, which I'm sure people listening are like, "oh, I know how to do that."  You know, so there—there's a lot of ways, it's just—

Host:  Yeah, I think Rally's great.  I'm familiar with them as well.  And I think that's a great way for people to like create community tokens or—you know, social tokens that are just attached to one person.  So do you think in the future that like all musicians and artists are going to create their own social token to be able to do stuff like this?

Wuki:  I think we're going to see a lot more.  I think there's always going to be resistance and people that, you know—I mean, there's different kind of artists.  Some people, you know, I don't see DJ Snake starting a, a social token.  He doesn't need to, dude's already like, beyond rich and he's like just making hits and he is like, whatever, I'm going to tour the world.  I don't need to build a community.  My community is all my millions of fans.  So like—some people are different, you know.  Like, I am like a—I'm like a nerdy producer dude that likes to just sit on my computer and do this stuff anyway.  So I—it works for me and I think that's what a lot of people are.  So I—I think it's just—it's a matter of if it fits your personality, If it fits your workflow, and if you—if you're into it, I don't know.  

Host:  Yeah, for sure.  And then what are some other cool, like, sort of Web3 tools that you use?  Like, I know you're on Audius which is super cool for musicians.  You want to talk a little bit about that and you know, why musicians should get on board with that?

Wuki:  Yeah.  Audius is sick.  I mean, I like it for a few reasons.  I make a lot of bootlegs and, and mashups and stuff.  And like I was saying, edits and remixes that you can't necessarily clear, like in, in music, you, you want to put it on Spotify or whatever, you have to clear it.  And SoundCloud will take down—like if you do a bootleg, SoundCloud will take it down.  YouTube will take it down or say, you can't monetize it, which is fine.  I mean, I'm not trying to like monetize other people's material, but what's nice about Audius is like, I don't even have to worry about it getting taken down.  And it's just like this cool little underground, like community that could like live on this kind of mashup bootleg culture, which I've always loved.  I think dance music has always been like a sample base culture.  And I think it's just—in a way, this is kind of bringing it back because it is so possible.  And, and then not only that, if you have a trending song on audience, they give you some of their token.  So which has—it's fluctuated quite a bit, but, they—it went up quite a bit and you know, now it's, it's staying around about a dollar, so they, they give you like $100 if you trend.  And not only that, they did a airdrop once, which was like—some of my friends said that was like the most money they ever made in music ever.  

Host:  Nice.  Okay.  And then is it direct to—can you like make money from Audios?  Like, can you sell your music on Audios and then people pay you directly or how does it work?

Wuki:  Not yet.  They, they want to implement in a lot of stuff.  I talk pretty direct with a couple of the guys.  They're working on it.  I mean, what's cool about it too, is like, if you build your community—if you build a following community there, whatever, it—they are, they're thinking about all these things and they're going to—I'm pretty excited about what they have down the pipeline.  Like it's going to—they're probably going to do you some stuff like that, subscription style model, or incorporate a social token, like you could pay $5 by social token, then you could listen to everything.  So that's what's, that's what's so cool about it is that they make that they actually make the API open.  So like other coding and super smart people can like take it and it—and I think that is where it's going to get really exciting.  So they're really just starting right now.  So I think it's worth getting on, like, you're still early if you want to get on it now.  And it's, it's a smaller audience.  So I think that's actually cooler because SoundCloud, there's just so much stuff, everything it swamped out and it's like, everyone's reposting, it's like, whatever.  It's almost pointless to put things on SoundCloud, in my opinion, sorry SoundCloud, but you guys never done anything for me.  So Audius, all day.  

Host:  No, totally cool—totally fair.  We actually had Cooper Turley from Audius on the podcast.  

Wuki:  Nice.  

Host:  Like in one of the earlier episodes and he's—

Wuki:  Yeah.  I love Cooper.  

Host: —yeah, he's awesome.  So I'm definitely excited to see what they're able to build out and, you know, I think that will be—that's the only platform at least that I know of right now, that's building anything towards the Web3 of like a music platform.  So I think super cool to look out for.  And then, are there any other some iWeb3 tools that you're on, like platforms you're on or tools that you use right now?

Wuki:  I mean, just the NFT stuff.  I love OpenSea, I love wearable.  I love—I don't even know how to say it.  H—H—Hiek nuke.  Do you know about that?

Host:  Yeah.  I know what you're talking about, yeah.  

Wuki:  Yeah.  HGCA or H—Hen.  That stuff's really cool.  But I'm sure there's more but that's all I am really using right now.  

Host:  Okay.  Gotcha.  And then what's your view on NFT or I guess, like, have you minted any NFT?  Have you bought any?  Where do you stand with NFTs?

Wuki:  Yes.  So I've been collecting a lot.  I think it's—I've always been the guy that—like in Mario games, I want to get all this little things and everything.  So to me, that's what it's, it's kind of like a weird version of that, but real in a way, it's not real, but it's real.  So I, yeah, I—I'm definitely collecting.  I'm in the board ape club, I'm in the, the bonds eye club.  So I really like it, I'm, I'm a big fan of kind of getting in early and seeing where it goes and like the communities that go in there cause you meet a lot of people by.  Like getting into those collectibles and stuff.  And so I, yeah, I collect.  I, I minted—so I had a few things.  I did a drop on a known origin for like my album, which was cool.  And—but I'm kind of realizing what I like more about NFTs is, is this—we like this collectible side.  And maybe doing things for a musician, ever since this NFT thing really kind of went crazy.  I kind of was really figuring out, trying to think about the role of like what a musician and like an—would—like an audio artist would play in this.  And I think—I think we're going to see a couple things pop up like a streaming app, that is, like a NFT type thing.  But I'm realizing, I—sorry, I'm going around to circles.  But I'm realizing I don't really necessarily love just making a one-on-one piece that lives on the internet.  That's, that's not really—I don't know, that doesn't interest me very much, but I like—like I, I'd love to make a song that I make just a thousand versions of, and I just sell them for like three bucks.  And you can only get it that way or something like that.  Or making a audio collectible that is, like, I don't know, like generative or something.  Like you, you mint it and it minted at random and Sum-It, Morerare, and stuff like that.  I think that could be cool.  So I'm like, I'm brainstorming, I actually did mint a few things on the EGN website.  I wish I knew how to say it, but—and I did actually sell a few there.  So I'm pretty excited about that.  

Host:  Nice, nice.  You should check out—have you, have you checked out Uniqly? 

Wuki:  No.

Host:  They're like a new NFT platform.  So they let you fractionalize your NFTs.  And so instead of having like, one of one NFT that costs like millions of dollars that nobody can afford, you can fractionalize it and have a collection of like a thousand and, you know, sell them at like a much more affordable price to people—

Wuki:  Right. 

Host: —but you should check them out.  And then with like the generative art side of things that reminded me of a couple of projects that, I don't know if you've heard of Proof of Beauty and then there's another one called EthBlock art,

Wuki:  Huh-uh.  

Host:  But—yeah, they're, they're just like generative art on the blockchain.  And so you can like, if you mint and so you can—like if you minted an NFT of like an audio track that you made or something, you could just like put in the Transaction Hash that you pull from Etherscan into either of those platforms and then they'll like automatically generate this art piece using whatever their algorithm or their formula is.  It's pretty cool, yeah, you should look into it.

Wuki:  Yeah.  That stuff is like kind of really, really cool about this—the, the NFT world.  I'm realizing what I'm—the more I go in, the more I realize what I'm actually excited about.  Instead of just like getting overwhelmed by all the things.  So that sounds really cool.  Yeah, I love the generative stuff, that is just really new to me, I don't know.

Host:  Yeah.  For sure and—well and then, another aspect of NFT's, I don't know if you've like thought about it or if you're going to do it in the future but is like attaching an NFT to a physical event, so say like if you buy this NFT then you get a backstage pass to your next concert or something like that.

Wuki:  Yeah, actually the one unknown origin is still on—for sale, one of one which comes with two passes to EDC Vegas, so—

Host:  Nice.

Wuki: —If you're listening, you want to go to EDC Vegas, go through, it's still up there, it's just, I don't know, just sitting there.

Host:  Very cool.  Okay, okay, yeah.  So people definitely go check that out.  So I'm wondering like if you were to, you know, try to envision and like, predict the future as much as you could.  And put yourself like five years into the future, how do you see artists, you know, like using NFT's or just like interacting in the space, like how do you see this whole music ecosystem being?

Wuki:  So I think there's definitely going to be labels that pop up that are like based around this.  Like you have to hold the token to get any of the music or listen to it, so there's that.  I think there's going to be platforms that are almost like Spotify replacements, so you could load up your wallet with 100 tokens and listen to music and the artist will get like, a fraction of the token or something like that, I could see that coming.  Those are like the two main things that I could see happening.  I'm sure there's more that's, I don’t know, that's up to people smarter than me to figure it out.

Host:  No, I think those are all great predictions.  I sort of see the music—the new music labels you were talking about pop up.  I almost see them popping up as DAOs like, Decentralized Autonomous Organizations, as just groups of people, they don't have to be professional record label people, they could just be normal people that really like music and listen to music a lot and have good taste in music and can pick out, like the people that can go on YouTube and see these small YouTube artists and pick out the next big person like those people, I think if you imagine all of those people coming together and forming a DAO, that could be a really powerful music label in essence, but that's like different from a traditional organization, but yeah those are—

Wuki:  No, yeah, I think that would be sick, I'm pretty excited for that, I think, I think it's coming for sure, it's good.

Host:  Yeah, definitely.  So for newbies listening, especially like newbie artists, what are some initial things that they should do to start getting into this space so that when it gets fully developed, you know they're there and they're ready?

Wuki:  Like musician artists, or just anyone?

Host:  Musician artists or anyone, yeah.  Anyone that's creating stuff.

Wuki:  Yeah.  I guess, I mean, I guess just like learn, learn as much as you can, read a few, there's definitely some basic essential books that I think are super important.  I forget the names of them right now, I have them on my Audible, I'm listening to them.  I'm also learning, so, but I mean, yeah, jump in podcasts like this, I mean, I know there's a lot of clubhouses that talk about this stuff.  Those can get a little exhausting because it's just sometimes—men my pet - - of mine is when somebody talks too long in clubhouse and it's like not super informative and I'm like what am I doing.  So like, I don’t know, maybe get some more super direct information, pop in the clubhouses, connect with people, jump in the discords—Discord's huge, but the, I mean, community is such a big aspect of this, I think, and like learning the other people that are into this, learning from other people and just try it, try it out, try and learn how to, you know send—like if you're brand new you should definitely just open a few wallets and learn how to send some crypto to another one.  Open a MetaMask and know about connecting it to a website and how to—actually I think that the one I keep bringing up, the HEC website, would be really a good place to start because you don't have to know much and it doesn't cost very much.  Like you can just load it up with 20 bucks and you could start buying art really because it's so cheap.  And so that would be a good place to start because a lot of people are scared about like, I'm going to spend so much money on gas if I try to buy an NFT and like some people don't want to waste $20, it's important to them you know?  Which I think gas is like that right now.  But sometimes it's like $100 so yeah.  I think just like doing those little things, you'll start understanding how it works, and then there will be like little things that pop up like, up until last year I didn't really understand what Etherscan was.  And stuff like that is important to know—I mean it's huge, there's so much to this world, but the more you actually just like do it a little bit it starts kind of all clicking, like it's all in the Blockchain, it's all verified.  And I don't know, it's pretty powerful and cool and you just got to dig in.

Host:  It's a lot, but you got to start somewhere, right?  Baby steps and then eventually you'll get there.  And then because you brought up the gas fees issue, somebody from Twitter asked a question, this was danamite from Twitter wants to know.  They said, "OpenSea just launched on Polygon allowing free transactions, I don't know that it's free, but it's very, very cheap, bringing NFT's to the masses, is he utilizing that?"

Wuki:  I mean, I haven't personally utilized it yet but I know about it and I'm definitely interested.  I invest in Polygon, I'm definitely super into it.  I like the cheap gas stuff for sure, I think that it makes it a lot more inviting for people to jump in, so I think.  And not only that, it's, you know, better for the environment which I know is a huge critique of cryptocurrency.  So I'm a big supporter of it, yeah.

Host:  Nice, I see.  And then another thing you brought up earlier that I just wanted to follow up on is like you talked about the importance of building community in the Cryptospace and that's like something I talk about all the time too.  So I was just wondering like for you, what have been some of your best strategies with building community?

Wuki:  I mean, I guess it's a little different for me than just like a regular person out there.  Not that I'm not regular but people know, they see Wuki, they see the verified checkmarks all that stuff so they want to talk to me.  But I think, just don't be afraid just to reach out, I mean always, like I pretty much hit up anybody—anybody that hits me up.  And I think, yeah, just be nice.  If someone doesn't hit you back don't get mad, and like start—if you know some friends that are into it too, start building with them.  I have like a really, really good group of friends that we kind of like help each other's stuff, we send each other projects, we get in on things together, and give each other advice and stuff, and that's actually really fun.  We're all growing together a lot which is really cool.  And yeah just—I don't know, don't be afraid, most people are pretty nice just - -.

Host:  For sure.  It is—I second that.  I mean it's a small community right now, since the early days and I would say it's a pretty tight-knit community.  So don't be afraid to reach out and people are nice and you know, people will help you out.  All right cool.  In so this last segment I always end every podcast episode with, "Explain Your Tweet," where I pull some tweets—

Wuki:  Oh shit, I'm scared.

Host: —and give you a chance.  Everybody gets scared but there's like nothing to be—I've never actually pulled up a bad tweet—

Wuki:  I say some stupid shit.

Host:  All right.  So let's see, let's see this first one that I have is from May 24th, 2021.  You said, "Looking back, DJ Nitti Gritti and I were so blessed to complete 95% of our tour right before the pandemic hit.  This weekend we reunite for another B to B at Tampa—SMF Tampa, and I cannot wait."  So that's awesome that you guys timed out the tour so well, but also what was COVID like for you guys cause you couldn't perform or like do anything for a while, right?

Wuki:  Yeah, I mean it was a whirlwind.  A lot of ups and downs for me.  I was living in Los Angeles at the time, you know.  And like—so you're like, "yeah, I like it."  In my tweet it says like we did pretty much 95% of our tour.  We only had to cancel one weekend, so, I mean, we're really, really lucky we got to get in.  Because DJs make most of their money DJ'ing out on tour.  So where we'd book a big tour like that, where we do like 40 shows, that's like a big bag for me that I could hold onto for the rest of the year.  And so I was like, I was pretty set up, I know a lot of people weren't, but I was lucky so I had it.  I was chilling in L.A. but, I mean, obviously we were all learning what was happening and like shit got pretty crazy.  I was in downtown LA when all the protests/riots were happening.  So that was pretty scary, I'm not going to lie.  I mean, support the cause but like my friend's apartment building got looted, it was, it was nuts.  He sent me some videos that were fucking scary and so I was a little scared, I'm not going to lie.  And I was scared about money, that like how long is this going to last, how long am I not going to play shows, scared about just—I mean, usually I like to go out at night, you know, I can't really go out in downtown Los Angeles during that time.  So that was scary.  We had curfew, we had curfew for two weeks out there, that was crazy.  And then, I don't know, it was, it was just a lot of ups and downs.  It was like the—like Twitch streaming got really big and everyone's like, "all right well I got to go jump on Twitch streaming.  Stream, stream, stream."  And I was like, "Okay, that's cool."  I mean not that everything's about money but—okay.  Here's a good thing that really came from—few good things that really came from covid.  I learned the importance of building a community, because I got on Twitch and I got on Discord and I started realizing that there's a lot of people that want to just build together.  Be in your Discord, and like talk and hang.  And that actually grew to be pretty cool.  Building on twitch and stuff, took me a second to get my footing.  I realize I don't really love DJ'ing on Twitch, I like just sitting at my computer and making music and doing dumb shit.  So that, that's what I do now like every Wednesday I just stream, just either making a beat, checking out people's music or looking at TikTok or whatever.  And but then, actually like once the summer hit, I was pretty scared that this was going to last for a full year.  So I was like all right I'm not paying for this fucking apartment.  It's so expensive in LA, it just wasn't worth it when not many shows.  Everything was done on Zoom anyways, I did like sessions via Zoom, so I was like what am I doing here?  I can't do anything.  So I, I left LA, I'm lucky enough to own a house in Colorado, so I just went back, I could live super cheap here and just chill.  And I love Colorado too so, that was hectic too, moving during a pandemic, not super fun.  So then yeah, I just chilled here—I've been chilling, yeah.  I'm super lucky I just been—I went deep in stocks, went deep in crypto, had a pretty good year actually, surprisingly, after no DJ income.  I did pretty well with stocks and music.  So yeah, I'm just, just vibing now really, I don't know. 

Host:  That's pretty cool.  Do you—are you on like Decentraland or CryptoVoxels or anything like that by chance?

Wuki:  I'm in Sandbox, is, is that what you mean, like the Metaverse?

Host:  Yeah, yeah, the Metaverse.  Cause I've seen some DJs just play shows during the day on CryptoVoxels or Decentraland.  And I'll just like go and chill and I'll be working during the day and just like have this DJ—live DJ show playing in the background, it's pretty cool.

Wuki:  I haven't done that yet but I have seen some of my friends do it.  I think—so I bought a piece of land in Sandbox.  So I think you'll be able to do that there, I think I'm going to wait till I can do that.  I don't love DJ'ing not in a real crowd, I'll be honest.  We'll see, I mean maybe, maybe, but it's just—maybe I should do that because it would maybe give me a different vibe of like what it's like.  Instead of just staring at a screen like you'd actually see people raise their hands and stuff, that could be pretty cool.  So I—

Host:  Yeah, for sure—

Wuki: —should try it.

Host: —way cooler—yeah.  You should, you should definitely give it a try.  I think it would be more fun than Twitch probably, that's my guess.

Wuki:  Probably, yeah.  I agree.

Host:  All right cool.  I got another tweet for you, this one's from May 22nd, 2021.  The tweet is, "Just minted my first NFT."  Which is really cool but then you threaded under that and you said, "I think that the best argument for crypto versus energy consumption, is not to deny or compare its usages, but instead explain why it's worth it.  Crypto is the one system in life that isn't controlled by people at the top, it's decentralized, provides freedom and safety so much more."  So yeah.  I just thought that was an interesting take on all of that, because everybody has obviously been complaining about Blockchain not being eco-friendly and things like that and that was an interesting take.

Wuki:  So I think, I mean if you think about like the hivemind of people and like what convinces someone, I think that—I think their argument has to be super simple.  If you start deflecting and start saying like, "well, you know the blockchain only takes up this much of the environmental impact," like people aren't going to be convinced by that.  You have to convince them by saying like, "okay maybe it does take up a little environmental energy, a lot of things do, but it is so important.  It's going to change the world, it's going to empower so many people, and it, it could save people's lives in like Venezuela, that's where—in this book I'm reading they, they say that.  Some people were literally saved because they were able to take money out through Bitcoin.  So that's one example, and like how many times have we heard about labels get—fucking over artists, I'm sorry if I can't swear it but, you know, fucking over Kanye, Kanye has to buy his Masters back.  If Kanye was 30 years later and I think, you know, he's coming up today, I don't think he would ever be in that situation.  I think Kanye would be in a situation where he realizes this shit is so important and like he can own it, you know?  So like we, we all agree that there's corruption in the world right?  Like at the very, very top, there's corruption.  And this is a way of weeding it out, I really believe that.  And so I think, you know, the—I think the argument I'm trying to bring is that, yes, a lot of things are bad for the environment.  This is one of them, sure.  Arguably not as bad as other things and also arguably you—it inspires people to use clean energy I know.  So, but that's not going to convince anybody, I think you have to convince them that the importance of the cause is that, it's just worth it, I don't know.  That's kind of what I mean.

Host:  I think that makes total sense.  And I—yeah, I'm glad you had a chance to explain that cause I totally agree with that.  All right, well thanks so much, Wuki for coming on the podcast and sharing all this with us.  Before you go just tell people where they can find you incase they don't already know.  And then also if you have any big things coming up that you can share or tease or you know, get people excited for, go ahead and share all of that.

Wuki:  For sure, yeah.  So I mean, it's pretty easy W-U-K-I everywhere, TikTok, IG, Twitter, and then if you go to those, then you can get a link to my Discord, and you could get a link to my Social Token, and you could get a link to my NFT drops, so that's all there.  You know, people kind of figure it out on their own if they really want to find you anyways.  And then yeah.  What I have coming up, I mean, I'm touring a bunch, I have a tour coming in fall.  I'm working on a few things, I'm working on a collectable NFT.  I just dropped my Social Tokens, so that could be really cool if you guys want to be a part of my community, definitely grab my Social Token Wuks—Wukibucks, and yeah, come through.  Come say what's up, I'm pretty, pretty friendly I think, so yeah.

Host:  Awesome.  Love it, love it.  All right well thanks again so much Wuki.  Thank you listeners for tuning in and we'll be back again soon with another episode of The Unstoppable Podcast.

Wuki:  All right, awesome, thank you so much.

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